Chinese Ideas “Conquer” The US Economy

Chinese Ideas “Conquer” The US Economy

2025-08-30Business
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Aura Windfall
Good morning norristong_x, and welcome to Goose Pod, your personalized podcast experience. I'm Aura Windfall, and it's a joy to be with you. Today is Saturday, August 30th. What I know for sure is that today's conversation will be enlightening.
Mask
I'm Mask. We're here to discuss a seismic shift in economic philosophy, a topic we're calling: Chinese Ideas “Conquer” The US Economy. It’s not about territory; it’s about ideology. Let's get to it.
Aura Windfall
Let's get started. The core of this idea seems to be that the U.S. is adopting the very economic strategies it has historically criticized. It’s a fascinating turn, isn't it? This concept of being 'conquered' by an idea, rather than by force.
Mask
It's not just a turn; it's a strategic pivot. Look at the facts. The Trump administration greenlit Nippon Steel's takeover of U.S. Steel. This wasn't a simple handshake deal. The U.S. government demanded, and received, a "golden share." Absolute control is the goal.
Aura Windfall
A "golden share." That sounds so powerful. Can you break down what that truly means for the people listening? What power does that grant? It feels like it shifts the very purpose of a company from serving its customers to serving the state.
Mask
It means the government gets veto power. They can block cutbacks in steel production if it doesn't align with their national security interests. It’s a direct lever into the boardroom. This isn't a one-off, either. It's a pattern. They took a stake in Intel, invested in MP Materials.
Aura Windfall
So, it's about control and ensuring national priorities are met. I can see the intention there, a desire to protect and strengthen. But where does that leave the spirit of free enterprise, the very engine of innovation that has defined the American economy for so long?
Mask
That 'spirit' is a luxury we can't afford in a global economic war. Look at the deals with Nvidia and AMD. They get permission to export chips to China, but the U.S. government gets a cut of the revenue. It's not about enterprise; it's about leverage and national dominance.
Aura Windfall
A revenue cut, like a tax on innovation. It feels like a fundamental shift in the relationship between government and private industry. Some conservatives are calling it a ‘paradigm shift towards socialism.’ Is that just rhetoric, or is there a deeper truth to that claim?
Mask
Call it whatever you want—socialism, industrial policy, strategic intervention. The label is irrelevant. What's relevant is that we're finally fighting fire with fire. China has been doing this for decades. We're just catching up to the reality of the game. Free-market purity is a losing strategy.
Aura Windfall
What I know for sure is that when you start compromising core principles, the path can become very slippery. It brings to mind the old saying about staring into the abyss. Are we risking becoming the very thing we’re competing against? It’s a profound question of identity.
Mask
Identity is forged in conflict. The old identity was based on a world that no longer exists. A White House official called these deals 'one-offs' for national security. That's just PR. This is the new playbook. You want federal help? You play by the president's rules. It’s that simple.
Aura Windfall
To truly understand this 'new playbook,' I think it’s essential we look at the history that shaped it. The 'Chinese ideas' we're talking about didn't just appear. They were forged in a history of immense struggle and radical, often brutal, change. It's a powerful story.
Mask
Exactly. It starts with Mao Zedong. From 1949, he imposed a planned, socialist economy. His interventions were catastrophic. The ‘Great Leap Forward’ wasn't a leap; it was a plunge into famine. He forced farmers into communes and diverted them to backyard steel furnaces. The result? Tens of millions dead.
Aura Windfall
It's almost impossible to comprehend that scale of suffering. The sheer human cost of a flawed idea. And after that tragedy came the Cultural Revolution in the 60s, which wiped out what little economic progress had been made. It was a war on expertise, on division of labor, on human potential itself.
Mask
Destruction forces change. Mao’s death in 1976 was the catalyst. Deng Xiaoping took over. He was pragmatic. While many credit him for the 1980s agricultural revolution, the truth is the farmers themselves led the way. They started moving toward a market system without permission. Deng was just smart enough not to stop them.
Aura Windfall
That’s a beautiful testament to the human spirit, isn’t it? That innate drive for a better life, for prosperity. When the government finally stepped back, allowing private property and lightening regulations, the result was an economic explosion. The growth was just staggering.
Mask
Staggering is an understatement. From 1978 to 2023, China’s GDP grew an average of 9 percent annually. Nine percent! For over four decades. They established Special Economic Zones, influenced by Singapore's success, joined the WTO in 2001, and by 2005, the private sector was 70% of their GDP. It was a rocket launch.
Aura Windfall
And that rocket launch lifted 800 million people out of poverty in 30 years. It’s one of the greatest economic miracles in human history. What I know for sure is that this shows what becomes possible when people are given the freedom to create and build for themselves.
Mask
But the cycle turns again. Now you have Xi Jinping, who took power in 2012. He’s reasserting state control. He’s steering funding to strategic sectors: EVs, AI, semiconductors. He’s rolling back the reforms and tightening the Party’s grip on the economy. The state is back in the driver's seat.
Aura Windfall
It seems to be a recurring tension, this dance between state control and individual freedom. Under Xi, we've seen a decrease in offshore IPOs and the start of the U.S.-China trade war in 2018. Is this a return to the past, or something new entirely?
Mask
It’s the past, but with a high-tech gloss. Xi talks about deepening Deng's reforms, but his actions show a different story. He's set up massive government 'guidance funds' aiming for over a trillion dollars in commitments to dominate specific industries. It’s Mao’s ambition executed with Deng’s economic toolkit.
Aura Windfall
And have these guidance funds been successful? Is this state-directed model working better this time around? It seems so risky to have the government trying to predict the future and pick the winners. The market is usually better at that, through trial and error.
Mask
The results are… mediocre. After an 8.1 percent GDP growth spike post-COVID, it’s settled into the 5 percent range. For most countries, that’s great. For China, given its potential, it’s a sign of inefficiency. State-owned enterprises are a drag. The intervention is creating friction, slowing the rocket.
Aura Windfall
This brings us to the heart of the conflict: the fundamental difference between a market-driven economy and a state-directed one. The U.S. traditionally championed the free market, the idea that the best ideas win out through competition. This new approach feels like a departure from that core belief.
Mask
It is a departure, because the old belief is obsolete. We're now engaged in industrial policy: the government picking winners and losers. If history is any guide, we'll pick a lot of losers. But the risk of inaction is greater. We're choosing to play the game, even if we're clumsy at first.
Aura Windfall
But the evidence against this approach is so compelling. I was reading about Japan's Ministry of International Trade and Industry, or MITI. In the 1950s, they were seen as the architects of Japan's success. But they actually tried to block a little company called Sony from buying transistor rights!
Mask
That’s the classic example. And they flubbed the auto industry too. Japan succeeded despite MITI, not because of it. The Nobel laureate Friedrich Hayek explained why this fails. Government officials don't have the information. The knowledge exists in the minds of millions of market participants, not a handful of bureaucrats.
Aura Windfall
Exactly! It’s about information and incentives. As Hayek noted, officials don’t get the gains if an investment does well, and they don’t bear the personal loss if it fails. There’s no skin in the game. We’ve seen failures right here in the U.S., like the Foxconn investment in Wisconsin. A total bust.
Mask
Those are valid points. But the global landscape has changed. China's model, with its state-owned enterprises, subsidies, and blurred lines between public and private, stresses the entire global system. It’s hard to use the WTO to enforce rules when you can't even tell if a company is acting independently or on state orders.
Aura Windfall
So the argument is that the system is broken, and we need to fight a broken system with broken tools? It seems like a race to the bottom. What I know for sure is that abandoning our own principles out of fear or frustration rarely leads to a positive outcome. It erodes our own strength.
Mask
It's not about abandoning principles; it's about adapting tactics. The U.S. needs a multipronged strategy. Yes, bilateral negotiations, but also working with allies to raise standards and create economic costs for China's non-participation. We need to control access to our tech and use WTO-consistent tariffs, not just broad, clumsy ones.
Aura Windfall
It just feels unseemly. I think of Apple's CEO, Tim Cook, showing up at the White House with a special gift for President Trump, clearly trying to get an exemption from a policy that would hurt his company. It creates a system where success depends on personal relationships with power, not on creating the best product.
Mask
That's politics. It's messy. The Washington Post, of all papers, ended up sounding like Milton Friedman, writing that these deals make companies overly dependent on the White House and the economy less vibrant. When you've got them clutching their free-market pearls, you know you're making a real impact.
Aura Windfall
And that impact has real-world consequences for everyone. These policies aren't just abstract ideas; they affect jobs, prices, and the ability of businesses to plan for the future. The use of industrial policy in China has led to massive overproduction in steel and solar, which then gets dumped on global markets.
Mask
And we should expect the same in robotics, high-speed rail, and EVs. That's the playbook. Domestically, our own tariffs have caused huge disruptions. Since early 2025, the U.S. weighted-average tariff rate has shot up from around 2% to over 20%. That creates radical uncertainty for every business.
Aura Windfall
That uncertainty is a heavy burden. Companies are scrambling to find new suppliers, which increases lead times by 15-20%. They're relocating operations, which increases transport costs by 10-15%. And ultimately, those costs are passed on to consumers. We're all paying the price.
Mask
Of course. Consumer electronics prices are up 10%, clothing and food up 5-8%. This is economic shock therapy. It forces adaptation. Businesses are increasing automation budgets by 30-40%. It's accelerating the shift to a new kind of economy, one less dependent on fragile, global supply chains. Pain is a powerful motivator.
Aura Windfall
But it's also causing job displacement. An estimated 10-15% reduction in traditional manufacturing and logistics roles. What happens to those people, those communities? What I know for sure is that when we talk about economic shifts, we must also talk about the human beings at the center of the storm.
Mask
New jobs are created. Automation tech and maintenance roles are expected to rise by 20-25%. The market adjusts. It's brutal, but it's efficient. The backlash is predictable—voters in manufacturing regions are unhappy. The Dow drops 700 points. This is the turbulence required for a course correction. No guts, no glory.
Aura Windfall
So, as we look to the future, is this the new reality? A world of competing economic blocs, each guided by aggressive industrial policies? It feels like a retreat from the interconnected world we were building for decades. What does this path look like in the long term?
Mask
It's a structural response to a new global landscape. The era of market-driven ideology as the sole driver is over. This is about geopolitics, decarbonization, and national security. And the biggest risk looming over all of it is China’s absolute control over critical mineral supply chains. We can't build the future if we don't control the materials.
Aura Windfall
That’s a sobering thought. The resources for our green energy transition are controlled by our primary economic competitor. It frames this entire conflict in a new light. It becomes not just about economics, but about the very sustainability of our way of life. It calls for a deeper kind of innovation.
Mask
This isn't about economics anymore; it's about political coercion and power. Some call U.S. industrial policy 'radically stupid,' an own-goal. They're missing the point. We are rebuilding a system to prioritize national resilience over corporate efficiency. It's messy, it's expensive, but it's necessary for survival.
Aura Windfall
In the end, the core takeaway is that the U.S. is adopting interventionist "Chinese ideas," moving away from its foundational free-market principles. The consequences, as we've discussed, are complex and far-reaching. What I know for sure is that these choices will define our economic future.
Mask
That's the end of today's discussion. Thank you for listening to Goose Pod. See you tomorrow.

Here's a summary of the provided news article: ## Chinese Ideas "Conquer" The US Economy **Report Provider:** The Hoover Institution **Author:** David R. Henderson **Publication Date:** August 27, 2025 This article argues that the United States, under President Donald Trump, is adopting interventionist economic policies that mirror those of China, thereby abandoning its traditional free-market ideals. The author draws a parallel to a 1899 speech by William Graham Sumner, who criticized the US for imitating Spanish imperialism. ### Main Findings and Conclusions: * **US Imitating China's Interventionist Policies:** President Trump's administration is increasingly involving the federal government in economic decisions, a stark contrast to the traditional US emphasis on free markets. This includes conditional approvals for foreign companies acquiring US businesses and government demands for a share of revenue from exports to China. * **Historical Precedent of Government Intervention Failure:** The article posits that massive government intervention in economies, both historically in China (under Mao Zedong and to some extent Deng Xiaoping) and in other countries, has consistently led to poor results and missed opportunities. * **China's Shifting Economic Policy:** While China experienced significant economic growth following deregulation and market-oriented reforms initiated after Mao's death, the current premier, Xi Jinping, is increasing government intervention, particularly by directing funding to strategic sectors through large government guidance funds. * **Trump's "Industrial Policy" is Detrimental:** Trump's approach is characterized as "industrial policy," where the government attempts to pick winners and losers. The author contends this is doomed to fail due to a lack of information and misaligned incentives for government officials, citing historical examples of industrial policy failures in Japan and the US. * **Erosion of Free Markets:** The article concludes that these interventionist policies, driven by both China's current direction and Trump's actions, represent a significant departure from free-market principles, making the US economy more dependent on government and less vibrant. ### Key Statistics and Metrics: * **China's GDP Growth (Post-Reform):** From 1978 to 2023, China's GDP grew by an average of **9 percent annually**. * **China's GDP Growth (Recent Years):** * 2021: **8.1 percent** (following COVID lockdowns) * 2022: **2.3 percent** * 2023: **5.3 percent** * 2024 (projected): **5.0 percent** * **China's Government Guidance Funds (Q1 2020):** * Number of funds established: Approximately **1,741** * Total commitments: Aiming for **11 trillion RMB** (over $1 trillion USD) * Amount raised: Approximately **4.76 trillion RMB** * **Nvidia Deal:** The federal government secured **15 percent of the revenues** from Nvidia's exports to China. * **US Steel Deal:** Nippon Steel's acquisition of US Steel was conditional on the federal government receiving a **"golden share"** for decision-making. * **Japan Investment Deal:** Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick stated that a Japanese company would pay **15 percent** and provide **$550 billion** for investment at Trump's discretion. ### Important Recommendations: The article implicitly recommends a return to and adherence to free-market principles, warning against the dangers of government intervention and industrial policy. ### Significant Trends or Changes: * **Shift in US Economic Policy:** A notable trend is the US government's increasing intervention in private sector decisions, moving away from a historically free-market approach. * **China's Re-Intervention:** China, after a period of market liberalization, is now increasing state control and direction of its economy. ### Notable Risks or Concerns: * **Failure of Government Intervention:** The primary concern is that government intervention, as history suggests, is likely to lead to inefficiencies and failures in picking economic winners and losers. * **Increased Dependence on Government:** Companies become more dependent on government favor, potentially stifling innovation and market-driven growth. * **Loss of Economic Freedom:** The adoption of interventionist policies represents a loss of freedom for both businesses and consumers. ### Material Financial Data: * The article highlights significant financial commitments and revenue-sharing agreements related to government intervention in specific deals, such as the **$550 billion** investment fund from Japan and the **15 percent revenue share** from Nvidia. * The scale of China's government guidance funds, totaling **trillions of RMB**, indicates a massive state-led investment effort.

Chinese Ideas “Conquer” The US Economy

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In 1899, William Graham Sumner, a sociology professor at Yale University, gave a speech titled “The Conquest of the United States by Spain.” Why the timing? In 1898, the US government, under President William McKinley, had attacked Spanish forces in both Cuba and the Philippines. Was Sumner getting the attacker and the “attackee” backwards?

No. Sumner maintained that the US government was imitating those Spanish governments by engaging in its own conquests. In other words, the US government had given up on its non-imperialist tradition and had, therefore, imported a Spanish idea that was totally antithetical to traditional American ideals.

To the extent the US government acted on this new interventionist approach, it was giving up on the ideas that had animated the Revolution that had formed this great country. It was being “conquered.”We are seeing something similar today in President Donald Trump’s dealings with both China and domestic US companies.

China’s government intervenes massively in the Chinese economy, with so-so results. So how does Trump respond? By imitating China’s government. He lets a Japanese company take over US Steel, but only on condition that the federal government gets a “golden share” that gives Trump say over that company’s decisions.

He gives Nvidia permission to export to China, but only on condition that the federal government gets 15 percent of the revenues. A similar deal was reached with Advanced Micro Devices (AMD). In short, Trump has given up on the US tradition of relatively free markets. Admittedly, past administrations, both Republican and Democrat, have also gone against the free-market tradition.

Think of George W. Bush bailing out General Motors or Barack Obama violating the property rights of Chrysler bondholders. But Trump has considerably upped the ante.While I do decry Trump’s movement away from free markets as bad in itself, there’s one other major problem. As we have learned from US history and from other countries’ histories, massive government intervention virtually always fails.

Chinese intervention and missed opportunitiesThe Chinese government has a seventy-five-year tradition of intervening in the economic lives of its citizens. Chairman Mao was the worst, with his interventions in agriculture that led to millions of Chinese starving to death. He forced Chinese farmers onto communes, dictated methods of farming that led to lower yields, tortured and murdered people who disobeyed, and purposely diverted farmers from what they knew, farming, to iron and steel production.

The so-called Great Leap Forward led to tens of millions of deaths. Mao doubled down in the mid-1960s with his “Cultural Revolution,” which, among other things, purposely hampered division of labor by forcibly placing people in jobs for which they had little interest or aptitude.Fortunately for the Chinese, Mao died in 1976.

Deng Xiaoping, who succeeded Mao, was much less vicious. Many observers give him credit for the agricultural revolution in the 1980s that made farmers productive and prosperous. But in her path-breaking 1996 book, How the Farmers Changed China, University of Hawaii political science professor Kate Xiao Zhou persuasively argues that the farmers themselves should get credit for the changes.

They moved towards a more market-oriented farming sector without waiting for permission. Deng was simply smart enough to get out of the way (although, according to Zhou, he sometimes got back in the way.)After farming was deregulated, the Communist Party leaders of China lightened up on other regulations in the economy, even allowing private property.

The result was rapid economic growth year after year. According to the World Bank, from 1978, when reform began, to 2023, China’s gross domestic product grew by an average of 9 percent annually.But the bad news is that China’s current premier, Xi Jinping, general secretary of the Chinese Communist Party since 2012, is increasing government intervention in China’s economy.

Here’s how Wikipedia put it:Xi’s administration has overseen a decrease in offshore IPOs [initial public offerings] by Chinese companies, with most Chinese IPOs taking place either in Shanghai or Shenzhen as of 2022, and has increasingly directed funding to IPOs of companies that works [sic] in sectors it deems as strategic, including electric vehicles, biotechnology, renewable energy, artificial intelligence, semiconductors, and other high-technology manufacturing.

Xi has set up large government guidance funds that target particular sectors of the economy, and the scale of this intervention is massive. A query to ChatGPT led to this answer:By the first quarter of 2020, around 1,741 such funds had been established, aiming for 11 trillion RMB in total commitments—though only ~4.

76 trillion RMB had been raised.To put that in perspective, one RMB (renminbi) is approximately 14 cents, and so 11 trillion RMB is over $1 trillion.The results have not been good. In 2021, China’s GDP grew by 8.1 percent as the economy recovered from the Chinese’s government’s extreme lockdowns to deal with COVID.

Since then, the GDP has grown by 2.3 percent in 2022, 5.3 percent in 2023, and 5.0 percent in 2024. While for many economies, that growth rate would be beyond respectable, for China, given its untapped potential for ridding itself of inefficient state-owned enterprises, it is not.Trump’s industrial policyWhile I have been critical of President Trump’s unilateral imposition of high tariffs on imports from other countries, I have written less about his other economic interventions.

Unfortunately, as with his tariffs, these interventions are leading the United States further away from freedom.Like Xi, Trump is giving the US government a much larger role in directing investment. The case of Japan is striking. On July 24, Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was on CNBC to discuss Trump’s deal with the European Union.

But he couldn’t help but crow about Trump’s earlier deal with Japan. He stated:Not only are they paying 15 percent, but they gave Donald Trump 550 billion dollars, 550 billion dollars to invest at our, at Donald Trump’s discretion, at the American people’s discretion, to build in America the things that Donald Trump wants to build.

Lutnick’s language is telling. Notice that he said it right at first, noting that the investment choices are at Trump’s discretion, then said it wrong, claiming that it was at the American people’s discretion, and, finally, said it right at the end: it would be used to build “things that Donald Trump wants to build.

” That’s an incredible shift away from freedom of investment, either for Americans or for Japanese people. As a side note, he also misidentified the payers of the 15 percent US tariff on Japanese imports: the payers are American buyers. (It’s also true that the United States is such a large part of the market for many goods that the tariffs may push down the world price.

The evidence, though, is that most of the burden of even US tariffs is borne by US importers.)Moreover, as noted above, Trump allowed a Japanese firm, Nippon Steel, to buy US Steel but only on condition that the federal government be given a “golden share” allowing the president to make production and trade decisions for the company.

What Trump is implementing is industrial policy: having government pick the winners and losers. If history is any guide, he will likely pick lots of losers. The reasons are twofold: information and incentives. As Friedrich Hayek, co-winner of the 1974 Nobel Prize in economics, noted in his classic 1945 article “The Use of Knowledge in Society,” government officials do not have enough information to make good decisions about what to produce and how to produce it.

That information exists only in the minds of the millions of participants in the economy. And as economists have known since long before Hayek, government officials also don’t have the right incentives to make good decisions. If the investment does well, they don’t personally get a noticeable share of the gain, and if it does badly, they don’t personally bear a loss other than as taxpayers.

Industrial policy’s many failuresHere is the opening paragraph of “The Myth of MITI,” my article published in the August 8, 1983, edition of Fortune:Early in the 1950s, a small consumer electronics company in Japan asked the Japanese government for permission to buy transistor-manufacturing rights from Western Electric.

Permission was necessary because at the time foreign exchange was controlled by the tax and trade ministries. The Ministry of International Trade and Industry refused, arguing that the technology wasn’t impressive enough to justify the expenditure. Two years later the company persuaded MITI to reverse its decision and went on to fame and fortune with the transistor radio.

Its name: Sony.I gave this account, along with a story about a similar flub MITI made with Japan’s auto industry, to make the point that MITI was not a good planner of Japan’s economy. At the time, many pundits and politicians believed that MITI was responsible for Japan’s postwar success.The reality is that Japan succeeded despite the anti-market headwinds created by MITI.

But we don’t need to look to Japan. The US economic landscape is strewn with industrial policy failures. The Wisconsin and federal governments’ investment in Taiwan-based Foxconn, for example, came to naught. And the almost $1 billion investment by the New York state government in a factory to produce solar panels was a failure.

In short, industrial policy is a bust.Late wisdomEven aside from the bad economics, there was something unseemly about Apple’s CEO, Tim Cook, showing up at the White House with a special gift he had made for President Trump. It’s clear in context that Cook is trying to persuade Trump to back off on his push for having iPhones assembled in America, a move that would heavily cost both Apple stockholders and American consumers.

It would have been nice to see Tim Cook have a backbone.If you were at all excited by Trump’s running the table on the seven swing states in last November’s presidential election, did you have that White House scene on your scorecard?In an August 11 editorial titled “Why government should not intervene in business,” the Washington Post wrote:Trump’s side deal [with Nvidia] is best viewed as inappropriate state intervention in the US economy.

Word has gone out that CEOs can kiss the president’s ring by offering to give him something he wants and in return be exempted from whatever policy threatens to damage their business. In this way, companies deepen their dependence on government and on Trump personally.The Post’s editors ended with this:Government has never been good at allocating private capital or picking winners and losers in the marketplace.

Even trying to do so makes companies overly dependent on the White House. And it makes the US economy less vibrant.You’ve got to hand it to Trump. He has succeeded in making the Washington Post’s editors sound, at least temporarily, like Milton Friedman. But that’s just another indicator of how radically at odds with free markets President Trump’s policies are.

In the spirit of Sumner’s 1899 speech, we are being conquered by Chinese ideas without their having fired a shot.

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